Hiding in My Shell

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I’m afraid that The Ringmistress is right:

Honestly I don’t know if that reddit has any chance of making it. It’s like the women there don’t “get it.” How many pills do you need to take to learn that the best “sexual strategy” is save sex for marriage, don’t cohabitate, and learn some girl game.

I had to step away from the RedPillWoman subreddit yesterday. I pretty much suck at being a moderator because when I should ban, I engage & when I should engage, I ban. There are a lot of problems with the subreddit: there are tons of trolls, there are tons of purple pill women (red pill only for the good parts, but not swallowing any of the bad parts), & women as a whole get offended so easily. Just the fact that it is a female site means it will soon turn into Jezebel.

There are 8 or 9 lovely red pill women on the subreddit that are valiantly trying to make it a go, but they are massively outnumbered by the trolls & purple pillers. This post is not about these ladies, & they know who they are because I follow most of them here or on twitter.  They are doing an incredible job & I salute them.

But there are sooooo many trolls. So many trolls. These trolls are good, too; they suck you into a conversation saying they are red pill, but then slowly reveal that they are anything but. They have been trolling for years & I am obviously terribly naive. I simply can’t spot them until it’s too late & then what do I do, delete the entire conversation?

Then there are the purple pillers. They like the idea of having a big strong man around to pull their hair, but they are completely against anything bad said about women in general. They don’t believe in hypergamy or solipsism & if you compare women to cats they call it “female bashing”. They are firmly Team Woman. They are NOT red pill.

Then there is the problem of them just being women. Women get offended easily. Women LOVE to be offended! Then they have something to get all excited & bitch about. Then the whole conversation turns into a massive bitch-fest. Ugh. Shut up.

The thing is that real red pill women, in my experience, don’t get offended easily. I’ve been reading their stuff for a year or two now & they just don’t. They are able to carry on a conversation without saying things like “female bashing”. They are able to take criticism without getting all screechy.

Half of me wants to wade in & go all BAN HAMMER!!!!! on their asses & get not only all the trolls, but also the purple pillers (because they are basically trolls, too) & the other half feels slightly nauseous at the thought. I think I’ll hide for a couple of days & then decide. I really wanted it to work, but I also like not experiencing strife.

In my real life I dumped all my most caustic “friends” & avoid the unpleasant ones. I have whittled my life down to my husband, my family & a select few friends, & I have really been enjoying the peace & quiet. Then I let the trolls into my life with reddit. I’m not the brightest pencil in the box.

The only thing that would make the subreddit work is if a bunch of guys went in & cleaned the mess up. Seriously. If you think about it, taking the red pill as a woman means submitting to a man. The problem is that there are only two men handling it & they also have TheRedPill & are busy with that.

The RedPillWoman needs a bunch of good shepherds & women are terrible at that (I am terrible at that!). Look at some of the prominent female run blogs on the manosphere; in the comment section, the men keep the women in line. That’s what is needed. The question is, why the hell would a man want to wade into that viper’s nest to clean it up?

66 thoughts on “Hiding in My Shell

  1. King of my blog

    Teacup, for what it’s worth, I want to encourage you to keep the faith and don’t give up. I have only visited the subreddit several times to peruse and browse the conversations but each time that I did, I learned a little something. I think what you and the other women are doing there is crucial. Having a man to step in and clear the house might be the easier thing to do, but in the end, it might only serve to alienate possible red pill women that are trying to figure things out. Having women talking to other women will go a long way in affecting the thoughts of some that are on the fence. Just my $0.02.

  2. Stingray

    I just read the cat link you posted there and I thought it was hilarious! I haven’t been reading all of the posts and have been barely putting my toe in the water because I was 99.999999999% sure what has happened there would. I try to avoid situations like that as much a possible. I still wanted to give it a chance, but I doubt I’ll keep trying. On the men sites, they want advice. On the some sites, too many claim they want advice only to then rail against what they didn’t want to hear.

    And I’m sorry, if you can’t see the humor in that cat post and relate it back to something ALL of us have done to some degree or another, then something is wrong. Good grief.

  3. TempestTcup Post author

    @Stingray
    The cat post & the purple piller claiming “female bashing” was the what put me over the edge. Somehow trolls being trolls don’t bother me nearly as much as supposed red pillers being offended.

    Plus, the guy that wrote it was obviously joking in a very female-loving way – there was nothing in his post that suggested that he was anything but amused.

  4. dana

    i think one of the problems is that most “red pill women” are already married and older, AND probably made all the feminist mistakes in their youth before wising up and actually LEARNING something from living with or being married to men. obviously the core of us have so much in common that talking to each other is pretty much like talking to ourselves lol.

  5. TempestTcup Post author

    @King
    I don’t want to quit, which is why I’m stepping away for a couple of days to think about it. I really want to make this work, but it is kind of taking a toll on me.

    I’ll go back soon & try again to work with it. I also don’t want to abandon those true red pill women that are holding down the fort. I will gird my loins! :)

    Thanks!

  6. The Ringmistress

    This is why I decided to take a blog break. When I’m not putting my foot in my mouth, I just get caught up in arguments. I’m a take all comers kind of debater if I get the bit in my teeth, and that’s just exhausting.

    I’ve participated in several female dominated forums. In almost all of them, my husband ended up with partisan groupies within about a month, I got locally known for my well thought out…and unread…wall o’ text posts, and eventually one of us would get banned by the mods for being “not nice”.

    When the last one (a politically conservative invite only homeschooling forum) fell apart, we started an email thread with the few sane women capable of amicably discussing differing opinions without feeling attacked. So much more pleasant, and there’s been some real growth for all of us with genuine consideration of points of view.

  7. TempestTcup Post author

    @Dana
    That’s true. Heck, I didn’t wise up until I stumbled upon the manosphere a couple of years ago. Now I’m trying hard to make up for all those decades of being bitchy to my husband.

    Sometimes as a moderator I feel like I’m doing more harm than good. Maybe it’s that I’m new to it & haven’t figured out a middle ground. Sometimes the screechyness makes me screechy. I’m pretty conflicted right now.

  8. dana

    i thought the argument about the post regarding lying about your N was unfair. anyone can post on “red pill woman” and advocate anything, i saw the CORE of women who seem to get it all advocating being truthful if i recall.

  9. King of my blog

    Good for you! And keep in mind that haters are gonna hate. There is nothing you can do about someone coming onto the site with different views from you. Why would you want to? As long as the site is anchored by you and those like you, it will serve a good purpose.

  10. TempestTcup Post author

    @Ringmistress
    “When I’m not putting my foot in my mouth, I just get caught up in arguments.”

    Yes, that is exactly how I feel. I feel like my tone is off or my words are wrong a lot of the time.

    Also, I like being nice, but the red pill isn’t nice. There are certain truths that a person has to accept that are not nice at all, but until they are accepted that person can’t really consider themselves red pill.

  11. TempestTcup Post author

    @Dana
    I thought a lot of us were advocating truthfulness, too. The men on Free Northerner were pretty upset about it & a lot of them thought that if you didn’t march up to your fiance & blurt out your true number unbidden, that you were lying to them.

    I never gave my husband a number (he never asked); was I lying to him? Of course he knew me for a couple of years before we started dating, and I was dating someone in his circle of friends when we met, so he pretty much figured out that I wasn’t a virgin. Gah, I don’t know.

  12. TempestTcup Post author

    @King
    Thank you, I will keep that in mind. I will try to visualize the word “anchor” & try not to let my emotions override the message.

  13. The Ringmistress

    To be fair to those men, some of them have been outright lied to, and the discovery of things concealed caused grievous problems later. Others are still virgins and have a reasonable desire to find a mate who has exhibited similar self-control. In both cases, untruthfulness is very damaging.

    Where I think there was misunderstanding was the fine line between deliberate evasion to avoid embarrassment and possible loss (what Sis appeared to advocate) and being truthful but reticent about details so that the guy in question learns as much as he wants to know. I feel on the latter half, but it’s easy to see how such advice to woman already willing to lowball by 75% could be used to deceive rather than soften.

  14. TempestTcup Post author

    @Ringmistress
    That is true. The “outright lie” is a very, very bad thing when it comes to intimacy. And they are religious, which I think makes a huge difference. I grew up in the Catholic tradition (small town Catholic, so it was much stricter than city Catholic, which I’ve also experienced), so I’m aware of the difference it makes.

    Also, if the male held his number down or saved himself for marriage, it would be a huge betrayal if his wife later admitted she was the town bicycle.

  15. Emperor Lu Bu

    Nice post. I’ve looked at the whole “lying vs deceitfulness” issue since that “Christian” woman in the comments of the Bitches/Cats post brought it up, and I’m not saying that any man that enters into marriage without having that conversation deserves what he gets (As marriage itself in this Western world is a REALLY STUPID idea for a man.), but he definitely has not done his due diligence. And when he DOES, the woman that would play coy or dare be deceitful about her N is a flat-out BITCH, and does NOT deserve to be married. Period.

    Now, wait… I meant to comment on THIS article… What was it…? Oh yeah!

    “I’m not the brightest pencil in the box.” –> I laughed. ^_^

  16. TempestTcup Post author

    @Emperor
    I agree that marriage in the western word is really stupid for a man. And women will lie every time they think it will benefit them & they can get away with it.

    My nephew is almost 15 & I’m trying to figure out the best way to expose him to the red pill without my sister (HSM) really catching on. Luckily he is a long boarder & hangs out & goes riding with a group all over town all the time, & I think girls probably really like that. Now we just need to keep him from ruining his life by getting one pregnant or something.

  17. MargeryM

    I have been fighting myself about RPW for a few days now. On the one hand it needs to be there. The things we are talking about need to be said and need to be viewed. On the other as soon as I heard about it I was excited to meet other like-minded women but fully aware that it was going to go this route… because, well, *women*. I can’t seem to keep my mouth shut. As you all have seen I have to engage these people and it ends in this drug out war of words. I’d much rather be talking about ways I can improve myself but I find myself not wanting to post all the things I have wanted to post about on the sub because I know it will be pulled down by the trolls and the point missed by the Purple Pillers (“But I don’t want to be submissive!”) I feel like there is just no point. Part of me wants to leave because I feel all I have to offer is bitching out trolls and Purple Pillers; and, believe it or not, I don’t actually like doing that. A bigger part wants me to stay because I just really really want it all to work out.

    I do wish there was a private place that we could all get together as well as the public. I suppose if I really wanted to I could start one myself but I have created, admined, and moderated forums and groups before and I kind of hate it.

    I also find that I just don’t like Reddit. It has an obvious bias and I really do think our days are numbered there. I know this very thing is being talked about on TRP.

    I have to wonder, though, if all of these women creating such a fuss realize how well they are proving TRP’s point. That gives me a good laugh.

  18. TempestTcup Post author

    @MargeryM
    I’m in the same boat. I’m going to try to give it one last gasp, because I would really like to see it become a great place, but on the other hand I didn’t sign up to save the world. But yes, reddit is very caustic although there are a lot of subreddits that don’t really get trolls like we do.

    I was thinking along the same lines of a private place & we kind of have one just by our blogging & interacting with each other. The one problem I have is that since taking the red pill, I devote all of my off-work time to my husband, so I only post at work or very early in the morning. Occasionally we will both be on our computers in the evening, and that is the only exception to my rule.

    Sometimes I have to actually work at work & that really cuts into my blogging time. Of course, today I’m not getting any work done :)

  19. MargeryM

    I was thinking along the lines of a Yahoo/email list type deal where we get everything in email and can respond the same way (and it’s closed off to the public entirely). It makes things a touch easier.

  20. Stingray

    but on the other hand I didn’t sign up to save the world.

    Yeah, and it’s incredibly hard to save a world that wants nothing to do with being saved.
    I understand King of my Blog’s sentiment. That’s why I started a blog. But at my blog, they come into my world and are more likely to play by my rules. I think that type of situation is a bit more conducive to getting through to people a bit more because their brains are already forced to settle a bit. At reddit, that is not the case. The rules are very lax even with you guys moderating. That’s not a dig at the mods, just the situation with Reddit. We are the minority there and the women know it. We aren’t likely to be listened to for that reason alone.

    I believe that some of those women want help. Or at least they think they want help. But it is also mostly just going to be a place used to get their emotions out of their heads. It’s like the nail in the head video.

  21. MargeryM

    “I believe that some of those women want help”

    I agree, which brings me to something else I have been thinking of- we need something more concrete to offer. I think this would even help to keep the forum on topic as it would nail one down. Something along the lines of “RPW Guide to Girl Game” on the sidebar. TRP has things like “6 Months to Become a Man” (paraphrasing here) and other guides and resources that direct people to what TRP is. And though we could add those things to RPW there would still be confusion over whether or not this is RP for women or women living within TRP itself. If we don’t have that sort of direction to offer newcomers right off the bat I am betting they are going to lose interest and leave, especially because of the confusion the trolls the Purple Pillers are bringing in. But if we had something that said “this is what we are about and here is how you can participate in that in your own life” I think more honestly curious women would engage with the forum.

    Obviously this is all easier said than done but I’d be willing to help in any way I can to form something like that.

  22. TempestTcup Post author

    @Stingray
    I totally wish that you could, too. I only know of one other girl going so far, Dr. Illusion’s girlfriend, but she seems really laid back & cool.

  23. TempestTcup Post author

    @MargeryM
    You are right – we do need some sidebar stuff. I’ll try to dig some stuff up this weekend. I know it’s all been written dozens of times (of course most of those blogs are now defunct). Maybe I can appropriate (sounds better that stealing, lol) a little from here & a little there & mush them all together to form something all inclusive.

  24. TempestTcup Post author

    A huge problem with reddit is that it only takes a couple of seconds to make another alt when one has been banned, so you have to ban each troll a million times. If only you could ban the IP address. Maybe you can – I’ll look into it. Maybe there’s an app.

    Ugh, and the emotions – stop it with the emotions!!! (not you; them :) )

  25. Pingback: Hiding in My Shell | Viva La Manosphere!

  26. earl

    “The question is, why the hell would a man want to wade into that viper’s nest to clean it up?”

    Because I understand Psalm 23.

  27. TempestTcup Post author

    @Earl
    Good answer for a multitude of reasons.

    And we could obviously use the comfort of a rod & staff (if I’m not totally misquoting or misinterpreting).

  28. Emperor Lu Bu

    A good place to start would probably be casually recommending some of the better MGTOW writers out there. Other than myself (as I’m not SOLELY focused on manosphere topics), I’d recommend The Rational Male and Fedrz’ Blog (http://therationalmale.com/ and http://fedrz.wordpress.com/ respectively).

    Also, if you’d like to see what I’d tell MY son, I go into it in #3 of this post: http://emperorlubu.com/2013/05/17/10-questions-you-wish-someone-would-ask-you/

    Good luck on that mission, dear. If you can catch him with some actual reason before he turns 16 and starts driving into a whole new WORLD of possibilities, then you may literally save his life.

  29. TempestTcup Post author

    @Emperor
    I will do what I can; he’s a pretty reasonable kid. Oh & my husband texted me that he thought your cat post was hilarious!

  30. darlingdoll

    Sorry to hear that Tempest; hopefully they get sick of trolling so the site can be the positive place you envisioned.

  31. MargeryM

    Welp, now that I have discovered that the partner count thread that got everyone in a tizzy was started by a troll trying to out RPers in some hypocrisy (which s/he failed in) and the fact that I found this out via a thread by a former supposedly authentic RPW who felt scorned I am so much closer to calling it quits.

    Reddit is a crappy format for this, methinks. It just makes us into a sideshow for bored feminists.

  32. Pingback: Lightning Round – 2013/07/03 | Free Northerner

  33. donalgraeme

    There is a difference between reticence and deception.

    If a man never asks, and you never bring up the subject of past sexual partners, that isn’t deceptive. At least, reticence in that case isn’t dishonest if you know he isn’t operating under a false impression that you are a virgin. If he believes you are a virgin, and you know this, and you aren’t a virgin, then it is dishonest not to tell him. But without that circumstance reticence is not dishonest.

    Once a man starts asking questions, honesty means answer his question directly, without evasion. If he asks for a number, give a number. If he asks a simple yes or no, give a yes or no. But the idea of “Reveal on a need to know basis” is … well, the whole premise is wrong. The reason why is that the female hamster will take over and create a very narrow idea on what “need to know” actually constitutes. That kind of advice feeds to the worst behaviors in women, and I can guarantee will lead to dishonesty. As for Sis’ advice, well, I covered that in my post.

    Also, if the male held his number down or saved himself for marriage, it would be a huge betrayal if his wife later admitted she was the town bicycle.

    As one of those men with an N=0, you have no idea. You really don’t. I can’t even begin to describe what it would be like to discover that my wife lied to me about something like that. Chastity is practically the only nonnegotiable character trait that I require from a future wife. And she doesn’t have to be the village bicycle, even an N=1 is sufficient betrayal. I honestly don’t know how I would react.

  34. TempestTcup Post author

    @DarlingDoll
    That’s what I’m hoping. I just hope they don’t completely ruin it before it gets there (if it gets there).

  35. earl

    Trolls are fun.

    If they are helpless and they can’t defend themselves….you’ve found the right troll.

  36. TempestTcup Post author

    @MargeryM
    We are definitely a sideshow. It’s kind of funny though; why are they so threatened by us? Why do they feel the need to destroy us? But if you think about it, we are intruding into their territory. Troll central.

  37. Stingray

    She does seem very cool. Dr. Illusion has an interview he did with her up at his site. I haven’t been able to watch the whole thing, but what I did see was pretty good.

  38. TempestTcup Post author

    @donalgraeme
    I can’t even imagine; you are completely correct.

    I always go for honesty mainly because I believe you should own up to your failings & secondly because I found out really young that I’m a terrible liar. Honesty is easier & forces you to not do or say things you might have to lie about.

  39. TempestTcup Post author

    @Stingray
    Yeah, I’m not really able to watch videos at work & haven’t been online at home lately so I haven’t seen it yet. I will this weekend though.

  40. TempestTcup Post author

    @MargeryM
    I’m still going to give it another shot. I wish I felt more optimistic about it, but this weekend I’ll try it out again.

  41. The Ringmistress

    These nested comments are maddening.

    @donalgraeme
    Your explanation helps a lot. This might be one of those things where what makes perfect sense to me (“need to know” = answer direct questions honestly, don’t perpetuate false impressions, but don’t do an information dump unasked for) wouldn’t to someone already inclined to be deceptive. I should probably have been far more specific in what was necessary information, and what to do to avoid giving a false impression. My only consolation here is that the thread was apparently set by a troll, so I doubt that whatever I said will genuinely affect the particular actions of anyone. And I now know if I’m ever asked a similar question by someone in good faith what to advise that will avoid the chance of misinterpretation.

    So while I don’t think I was genuinely advocating creating a false impression, I can see how vague advice can become food for the hamster.

  42. Leap of a Beta

    I mostly found it ironic and hilarious that Sis was one of the ones advocating deceit. I know Sis’s writing well enough not to be surprised, but for many men having any women that calls herself Christian and Red Pill (whether accurately doing so or not) was a huge sense of betrayal.

    They had hopes centered on the idea that women can be red pill; to my knowledge most of those hopes involve not having to lead so much and a lower risk of divorce/cheating. Or that women would at least be able to lead other women to the red pill.

    None of those seem to be the case, because the few women that MIGHT understand the red pill are feminine – more prone to be quiet and submissive, yet able to think rationally once their emotions pass. Purple pillers, blue pillers, and trolls are masculine loud mouths prone to rudeness and reveling in their emotions while denying any sort of rational thought.

    The subreddit likely needs a strong hand. Doesn’t need to be masculine strength, an unwavering feminine strength would work. But someone not willing to back down.

  43. TempestTcup Post author

    @Leap
    Yes, I think that they thought that if a woman was red pill she wouldn’t have the same nature. They hope for NAWALT because they think they can relax & drop frame, maybe, but AWALT.

    And yes, the subreddit needs a strong hand. I’m not sure my hand is strong or rational enough, or whether or not I want it to be.

    I think a lot of Sis’s reaction was out of empathy. I’m not excusing it, but I can see where it came from.

  44. TempestTcup Post author

    Sorry if the comments look awful – I un-nested them. I’ve been considering doing so for a while & now I’ve figured out why I didn’t. Holy Moly!

  45. donalgraeme

    Removing nested comments in a post that already contains them is messy. I should probably consider doing it to my blog as well, before I have too many posts with a lot of comments.

  46. TempestTcup Post author

    @donalgraeme
    Yeah, it’s pretty bad – I’m editing my comments to include the name, so maybe it will make a tiny bit of sense. Yikes!

    But I’ve always liked the flow of conversation from un-nested comment sections.

  47. donalgraeme

    Yes, I think that they thought that if a woman was red pill she wouldn’t have the same nature. They hope for NAWALT because they think they can relax & drop frame, maybe, but AWALT.

    For me at least it wasn’t frame, but rather the fact that good, well-intentioned women would help an ill-intentioned woman try and dupe a man. It served as a reminder that Team Woman is the default setting, and I should never forget it.

    I think a lot of Sis’s reaction was out of empathy. I’m not excusing it, but I can see where it came from

    Yes, Sis was empathizing with the original author. The problem is that we as Christians aren’t supposed to be guided by empathy, but by Christian teachings.

    At this point I should also say that you weren’t one of the women advocating deception Tempest. At least, not that I can recall from that reddit post.

  48. TempestTcup Post author

    @donalgraeme
    I agree with everything you said.

    I’m not extremely virtuous though, I do not advocate deception because I am really bad at it, so I stay as far away from it as I can. I guess I’m lucky that way.

  49. rmaxgenactivepua

    You’re approaching this from a what cant I do, instead of what I can do

    The only way to run the red pill subreddit, is to make it for red pill women only
    Close it for debate, post your material, build up a reader base

    The best way to deal with trolls, is to close the comments section, its that simple

    At this point in time, the message is more important then the debate, let the readerbase grow, when you have a firm base of red pill women

    Reopen it with strict guidelines, for red pill women only, all beginners to the red pill banned

  50. TempestTcup Post author

    The comment section is the whole purpose to reddit. You suggest a subject & then everyone comments & you more or less debate the subject.

  51. PhantomDream09

    Hello! I just wanted to say that I discovered this site through The Red Pill sub-Reddit (I’m very new to the site), and I’m really enjoying your entries/blog in general. I also wanted to leave some words of encouragement as well. Sites like this and TRP/reddit have been amazing and invaluable resources to me. I realize this may be coming a bit late, but thank you.

    Thank you for taking the time to write, share, and put your thoughts out onto the web. It may not mean much, but your contributions DO make a difference, and they are appreciated. :0)

  52. vpAristotle

    “The question is, why the hell would a man want to wade into that viper’s nest to clean it up?” It’s a dirty job and a man has to do it.

    /Unknown

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