The Manosphere Is Lost: Explained

Rooshosphere by TempestTcup

I was having trouble keeping up with Roosh’s sphere position, so I made a handy chart for those who are visual learners. I guess everyone outside of the Rooshosphere are just plain old Manosphere or are Red Pill. Of course Ace predicted the splintering of the sphere into fiefdoms. Let me know if I have anything out of place & I’ll fix it!

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55 thoughts on “The Manosphere Is Lost: Explained

  1. donalgraeme

    As I argued over on Martel’s site, this was inevitable. All decentralized movements will eventually splinter into sub-movements, with only modest/tenuous connections between them.

    The PUAs started this, in a way, because they actually went to the effort of trying to observe and empirically determine key female behaviors. That got the ball rolling. What I wonder is how much more they have to contribute to the “Red Pill.” They were huge earlier, because of what they learned and passed on. But what have they added to the collective knowledge lately? Part of me wonders if Roosh’s reaction is in response to his realization that the PUAs are no longer the driving force behind “Game” or the “Red Pill.”

  2. TempestTcup Post author

    @donalgraeme
    I consider the Red Pill as nothing more than being aware of your nature. You can use this awareness to do different things.

    How many different ways can you say, have confidence, talk to girls, be playful, & advance touching.

    I also think Roosh is somewhat disillusioned with banging yet another country, and doesn’t know what to do next. I think he is tired of PUA but is afraid to take the next step, whatever that step may be.

  3. Jim

    Wrong. The red pill is being aware of the culture at large and how it’s manipulated by various entities in order to promote outcomes. That of course included the emasculation of men in social settings but also their complete and utter dissolution from employment among others. Many of us are disillusioned with western society that pedestalizes women at the cost of everything else. Even with you it’s how men relate to women and that’s YOUR only concern. Honestly the older I get, the less important women are in EVERY aspect of my life. Being told there’s a war on women and the dumb asses falling in line believing it tells me that women are the last thing men should focus on if they want to SUCCEED. Because with all due respect, you have become everything that goes against it. That men continue to burden their self worth with the ability to be with women as their only value is a criminal. But no woman is going to tell them that.

  4. TempestTcup Post author

    “That men continue to burden their self worth with the ability to be with women as their only value”

    I agree with you.

    Sorry, I’m just making fun of Roosh’s latest post, not the Red Pill. This diagram is in direct correlation to the things he wrote in that post.

    Roosh’s post has such gems as:

    “And yes, the ability of a man to lay a woman is, for better or worse, a reliable indicator of his value.”

    “Game is an obligatory pursuit for the Western man in 2013, and if he is not pursuing it, he’s not someone worth listening to.”

    I’m old & have been married forever. I don’t care how “men relate to me” I only care about how my husband relates to me.

  5. mina

    “I’m old & have been married forever. I don’t care how “men relate to me” I only care about how my husband relates to me.” Exactly. The problem is guys like RooshV have exactly zero context for something like this and can’t even conceptualize it. It’s not “his game” – “his game” is endlessly exploring NEW pussy, not getting to know ONE pussy really, really well to the point he can play it like a fine instrument. His loss IMO. However his viewpoint is interesting although so far removed from my own experience at this point in time, it’s like reading a book written by a 15 year old.

  6. TempestTcup Post author

    @mina
    It’s funny because I really do think he is burnt out on his quest & is looking for a new direction. RoK is doing well, but isn’t the thing to give him new life. He is just so invested in BANG that he can’t change direction now.

    I think a lot of the harping on Minter is a tiny tug of jealousy. I almost think that Roosh would like to explore a very LTR, but is afraid of what people might say. I might be wrong, though, it’s happened before!

  7. earl

    “And yes, the ability of a man to lay a woman is, for better or worse, a reliable indicator of his value.”

    That’s what a person with no soul would say.

  8. sunshinemary

    I think a lot of the harping on Minter is a tiny tug of jealousy. I almost think that Roosh would like to explore a very LTR, but is afraid of what people might say.

    I don’t think it’s jealousy on his part at all. I am amazed that people have not noted this one very salient fact:

    The entire sum of Roosh’s livelihood appears to be selling game books to single men. If all those men run off and get married or if they start buying books written by people who are Not Roosh (i.e. Dr. Helen or whoever)…it’s back to a real life job for him.

  9. TempestTcup Post author

    @earl
    Yeah, I’m pretty much with you on that one. I wonder how much mental (not even considering the spiritual) damage he has done to himself with his single-minded pursuit of the next bang. And that post was just so bitter, like a carousel-rider post-wall. Even the comments were very negative.

  10. earl

    Roosh is still at his core the same insecure male he was before he was getting laid. He just happened to go to an area of the world where women are a little more forgiving of insecurity.

  11. TempestTcup Post author

    @sunshinemary
    Oh crap, you are completely correct. It wasn’t bitterness (well, maybe a bit over the success of Dr. Helen’s book) I was hearing – it was FEAR. Wow, good call.

  12. earl

    I think a lot of guys don’t get the effects of many sexual partners do to them. It may not be the same damage as it is to a woman where they can’t bond as well…but I think the damage is that they don’t have the ability to love.

  13. earl

    The other sad thing is for all the places he traveled…did he really enjoy his time there? Take in the culture, see the sights, get to know the natives? Or was it just to go to night clubs to see what lady he could take back to his place? He got to see amazing places in the world…but if he was in a dark place I doubt he enjoyed it too much.

    I haven’t done much traveling in my time…I would be having way too much fun looking at the sites to even care about a woman crossing my path.

  14. Jeremy

    I really have to disagree with the article and a lot of comments here, in a hopefully non-combative fashion.

    Roosh wants, and has a valid reason for wanting, a purely male space. Women get them, they get lots of them. Women get such spaces with the full approval of men to have spheres of influence in which men have no say. The manosphere used to be this for men. With the explosion of female manosphere writers and commenters, that is lost. Say what you will about the ability for women to understand the red pill, god bless them, most female red pill writers DO get it, they are accepting of the realities that have been painted over for so long. But when the chips are down, they are not men. As such, they will never truly have a male perspective on these things. I took that to be a major point in what Roosh is complaining about, and I agree with it.

    @earl

    “And yes, the ability of a man to lay a woman is, for better or worse, a reliable indicator of his value.”

    That’s what a person with no soul would say.

    No, I disagree. A person with no soul would say that the frequent laying of random women is a measure of worth. i.e., a person with no soul considers sleeping around a measure of worth. Roosh is not saying that, he is saying that the ability to lay is a reliable indicator of value. You might be the greatest alpha with the greatest club game ever, but also be an incorruptible stalwart of monogamy. And when he (meaning Roosh) says value, he is not talking about all summed value of an individual, that would again be overstatement. He’s talking about value in the dating world, which is a big part of anyone’s life.

  15. TempestTcup Post author

    @earl

    I feel the same way about the reality show “The Amazing Race”. They never even really get to experience the cool places they go.

  16. TempestTcup Post author

    @Jeremy

    Yeah, I totally get what you are saying about the male only space. I always thought it was weird how a girl would get on a male site and the entire conversation would be redirected towards her.

    I will lurk at those sites occasionally, but I very rarely (usually never) comment.

  17. earl

    @Jeremy

    Value to whom in the dating world? Himself? Other guys? Women? God?

    He seems to be indirectly putting pussy on the pedestal that way. He goes about it biologically…other guys go about it emotionally.

    There were guys who were celibate that did plenty in the world. What worth would be assigned to them?

  18. Jeremy

    @earl

    Value to whom in the dating world? Himself? Other guys? Women? God?

    He seems to be indirectly putting pussy on the pedestal that way. He goes about it biologically…other guys go about it emotionally.

    There is no value in the dating world save what someone else will sacrifice to have you as a companion for x amount of time. This is basic economics at play on a human platform. It goes for both sexes. Simply acknowledging the fact that your value to your perceived “buyers” is based on their assessment of your value is not putting anything on a pedestal. In any fair transaction, both parties must feel as though they sacrificed and received value.

    There were guys who were celibate that did plenty in the world. What worth would be assigned to them?

    Again, this is why I specified *dating* world, not world in general. If Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein had never procreated, we would still hold their value to our civilization in high regard. Realistically, you and I are not the next Einstein or Feynmann or Oppenheimer, so our value to society is mostly based on how much we’ll produce for civilization. Realistically, the easiest way to have significant impact on the future of humanity is to produce lots of good, upstanding, beautiful children. No one will give a shit 100 years from now if I worked 50 years in the consulting business. However, potentially many hundreds of people 100 years from now will be glad I existed if I am one of their great grandfathers, particularly if good upbringing from me makes it down to them.

    So yes, the dating world *MATTERS* greatly, it matters to us laypeople more than anything because properly matching people to become stable parents is the cornerstone of a strong civilization.

  19. Pingback: Comment on Manosphere Insider Stuff by TempestTcup | PUA Central

  20. Jeremy

    @TempestTcup

    Yeah, I totally get what you are saying about the male only space. I always thought it was weird how a girl would get on a male site and the entire conversation would be redirected towards her….

    This is, I suspect, why male spaces in the past (>100 years ago) were so strictly enforced. It is not to protect the women from special parts of the world. It was done to protect the men from women. The presence of women clouds a man’s judgement. Hell, even the bible has explicit examples of this. Male-only spaces allow significantly uncluttered, focused thought in men that cannot be achieved when women are around. Furthermore, a male-only space is irresistable to specific types of women, and if they can’t be part of it or profit from it’s existence they will attempt to tear it down as an affront to their own perceived sexual value.

  21. mina

    “This is, I suspect, why male spaces in the past (>100 years ago) were so strictly enforced. It is not to protect the women from special parts of the world. It was done to protect the men from women. The presence of women clouds a man’s judgement. Hell, even the bible has explicit examples of this. Male-only spaces allow significantly uncluttered, focused thought in men that cannot be achieved when women are around. ” The man speaks truth!! 😀 I am all for giving guys their guy space. The feminists, they are the ones we have to beat back with giant sticks!!

  22. dannyfrom504

    i’ll say on the web exactly what i told another blogger (who’s site is WAAAAAY bigger than mine)….

    “meh”.

    go write another book about shagging girls in a third world country that 99% of the men reading will never visit. never spoke or had a bad thought about said person on until he spoke ill of me in an email thread after the “bro” BS.

    i got dropped from a few blogrolls after that BS even when i explicitly stated it was between me and said blogger. so, as far as i’m concerned……

    FUCK that corner of the sphere. they’re becoming more and more irrelevant.

  23. A♠

    Thank you very much, Tempest.

    I’ve been feeling far to akin to Cassandra, as of late.

    You’ve help assuage that.

    Hmmm.

    By your chart:

    I’m a “fat” [I’ve confessed to being overweight], “old” [I’m slightly older than Roosh], “keyboard jockey”.

    Alas! .000001% of the internet believes me to be worthless!

    And the rest don’t even know I exist!

    Wherever shall I find meaning and validation, now?

  24. earl

    “Yikes, troll banned, lol.”

    Didn’t hurt my feelings. If there is anything I’ve learned in my ignorance is that my feelings are only a weakness if I allow them to be. Pointing out faults should be the MO of any man…how you react is up to you.

    Besides I’ve noticed a lot more of these pua types coming out of the woodwork at me. Nothing reveals their character as much as when they attack their own gender. They are like the feminists they supposedly hate.

  25. TempestTcup Post author

    @Danny
    You would think that once they get good at getting girls, they would move on to bigger and better hurdles in life.

    But yeah, why the PUA sites are all “get rid of the women” when we are over HERE minding our OWN BUSINESS and not in their space at all.

    And boo, you aren’t coming to Vegas 😦 We’ll come visit you in NO in April!

  26. TempestTcup Post author

    @A♠

    Vegas, Baby!

    Hell, I’m not even a person (female) and older than crap, so I’m not even good for the pump and dump. Whatever will I do now? Oh right, live my happy life!

  27. TempestTcup Post author

    @earl

    Living your life the best that you can really angers a lot of people, I’ve noticed lately. Why they care what we do with our lives, I have no clue, but they do.

  28. earl

    “Why they care what we do with our lives, I have no clue, but they do.”

    They know deep down they want that life. They are still in the prison though and don’t know how to get out.

    Heck I was in that prison until recently. I would have been chanting with them just as recently as a year ago.

  29. TempestTcup Post author

    “They know deep down they want that life. They are still in the prison though and don’t know how to get out.”

    I think you are right.

    I remember when I first found the red pill a little over two years ago. Keoni wrote about his Paleo Baby and then I clicked on the story about how he gamed his wife. As I was reading it, I realized that I really wanted that. I wanted my husband to take over the reins of our relationship. I never would have even considered letting him do so before reading about it. It completely changed my life for the better.

  30. earl

    Well if I give kudos to the PUA types…they did break me out of my introverted shell. I don’t go out trolling for chicks…but I do strike up conversations with ladies who cross my path with ease now. What I didn’t intend is that my shell also broke out that I talk to men honestly and frankly as well.

    I also figured out that I basically lead every interaction. My attitude, feelings, voice tone, words, body language all paint a picture of what is going to happen. So while I’m not perfect, I don’t get down on myself if an interaction doesn’t pan out. I learn from it and get better.

    And I realize that I am the prize…if she doesn’t want it, her loss.

  31. TempestTcup Post author

    “I also figured out that I basically lead every interaction. My attitude, feelings, voice tone, words, body language all paint a picture of what is going to happen.”

    Once my husband realized that he is the elder AMOG of any group we are in, I have noticed that he does the same. It’s amazing, really.

  32. earl

    Every man is searching for love and wanting something to love. PUAs are only fooling themselves if they think their lifestyle is a way of finding it. They are too scared to put their heart on the line because of what might happen. Hardening their hearts only makes them robots. I’ve learned the more my heart gets shot at, insulted, or put through a fire…the stronger it becomes. Scabs on the heart should be something men strive for. Women can certainly help in that cause…but they would do best at guarding their hearts. They can’t take what a man can take.

    Then when they call me a mangina, emotional tampon, white knight, or the Greek letter that causes everyone to tremble…it doesn’t bother me. It’s been my mission to improve myself for me and the benefit of others. I take stock in God…and understand human nature. That’s why my heart belongs to Jesus and my ass belongs to everybody else in this world til I die.

  33. The Ringmistress

    @earl,

    The priest at my wedding gave a homily on joy. He said that the secret to a long and happy marriage is JOY: Jesus, Others, Yourself. All told, it probably works for all of life, not just marriage. Prioritize in that order and your life will be filled with joy. Sounds like you’ve got it correct.

  34. earl

    I often think if I go that route it would be easier for me to find someone to get married to.

    As it stands…I’ll just do it irregardless.

  35. mina

    TempestTC: Thanks for the invite, found you already, posted some stuff already. As Stingray knows I am a bit of a weirdo … I like the girly stuff every now and then but my real interest is economic/civilzation collapse, Libertarianism and guns. LOL 🙂 I spend a goodly amount of time on Vox Populi … kind of more “my speed”. I’ll be around.

  36. TempestTcup Post author

    Haha, I like that stuff too – I hang at Apocalypse Cometh & Illusion of Sanity etc. They also have a lot of self sufficient, DIY & get off the grid kind of articles.

    I have lots of guns & am a dead shot.

  37. Peregrine John

    Dang. I’ll be there next week, but not next month. On the other hand, the spanking Dr. Illusion gave some gammas(/omegas), over at those links, was pretty freaking hilarious.

  38. YouSoWould

    Roosh is a misogynistic joke. He only scores with ugly women, and sees the world through the taint of his own supressed self-loathing.

    Until the man learns to love women, and love himself, he’s just going to continue spitting acerbic bile.

  39. TempestTcup Post author

    @YouSoWould

    LOL, I was going to say that he has lost touch with 90% of the western world’s reality, so he shouldn’t be giving advice to guys living in that reality (much like women shouldn’t give love advice to men), but I like the way you say it better!

    Moral of this story: Don’t live inside your own little BANG bubble.

  40. Pingback: Taking Sides on the Manosphere Schism | Anarcho Papist

  41. Mark

    “Oh crap, you are completely correct. It wasn’t bitterness (well, maybe a bit over the success of Dr. Helen’s book) I was hearing – it was FEAR. ”

    I don’t think Roosh is the one who is frightened. If a lot of guys followed him in leading a nomadic existence trying to pick up girls in bars instead of getting jobs and becoming productive citizens, then the tax base would dry up for a welfare state that too many women vote for and are overly reliant on. Beneath the surface false bravado, a lot of women are frightened by this. A lot of the ones who aren’t are too obtuse to realize this might be a long run problem for them.

  42. TempestTcup Post author

    @Mark

    I wonder how long it would actually take for the welfare state to dry up. It seems like the government would start taking from bank accounts like Cyprus did before they would let the unproductive (voters!!) starve.

    I’m all for welfare drying up!

    But I think we were talking about Roosh fearing book sales might dry up, and frankly if he keeps up with the hysterics, they might. Did you see the comments on his post? They were very negative towards him. I was really surprised.

    And I’m also fine with roving bands of guys picking up girls in bars; I like to people watch and that stuff is entertaining as all hell!

  43. Mark

    “But I think we were talking about Roosh fearing book sales might dry up, and frankly if he keeps up with the hysterics, they might.”

    I don’t see his sales drying up. There are underlying factors that have caused the popularity of game advocates. I mentioned the welfare state making the traditional courting of women for marrriage less popular and there are other factors too. People like Roosh and Roissy would only become less popular if all those factors lessened and I think instead they are accelerating. I don’t see roving bands of guys trying to pick up girls in bars as entertaining. I see it as another sign of America’s disintegration. A society where guys spend their time trying to pick up random girls in bars instead of getting an education, getting a job, getting married and taking care of their wives and children is a society that can’t last in the long run.

  44. TempestTcup Post author

    I’m old, so I saw how my grandparents lived in the early 1960s, which was a different type of marriage than my parents have, which was much different than the short-lived, marry the baby-daddy for the last name marriage of my little sister. I fear for her son, my nephew.

    But yes, I have actually seen and experienced (not first-hand) the decline. Pandora’s box was opened long ago and it will only get worse. There’s no going back to the early ways without a huge catastrophic correction.

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